Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we're talking with Eric Anderson, professional magician turned speaker who shares his journey from foster care to speaking in front of large audiences.

We talk about how focusing on connecting with your audience can yield big returns. How he's used joint venture partnerships and book giveaways helps expand his audience and attract people interested in public speaking, and how he created a flagship email to stay in touch with people by featuring clients' business victories.

We also discuss why documenting your journey is so compelling and creates a blueprint others can follow.

This is a fascinating episode with lots of ideas to take away.

Show Links:
More about Eric Anderson
ProfitActivatorScore.com
BreakthroughDNA.com
90MinuteBooks.com

Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 252

**Dean Jackson**

Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson. Welcome to the More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast. We're here in Winter Haven, Florida World Headquarters, and today we've got Eric Anderson all the way from Atlanta, Georgia, Hot Lanta. It's hot right in Florida right now. Is it hot where you are?

**Eric Anderson**

It is. It's fine right now, but yesterday was ridiculous yeah.

**Dean Jackson**

Yes, well, I'm excited to chat, eric. I want to hear everything. I want to hear what you're up to, and I know just the basics. But it'd be good to kind of have you tell the Eric Anderson story a little bit and then what we're going to focus on today.

**Eric Anderson**

Okay, cool. So I grew up in San Diego. I was an interesting ninth child to a single mom. Wow. So when I was, yeah, when I was born, I was obviously a lot, but a whole lot going on. So I put up for adoption at birth but I was being abused in the adoptive homes. I was removed from the adoptive homes, became a ward of the court and from there I lived in group homes and foster homes till I aged at this, just in my 18.

Wow, and so from there, what was interesting is, somebody taught me well, somebody by Dr Bob taught me a very simple magic trick as a kid and I fell in love with it, started street performing. So when I was going through foster care, that was kind of my guiding light, gave me something to focus on and I wanted to be a professional magician. And so after foster care, sort of reached in United States Air Force, worked a couple jobs and but then I just kind of got started. You know, I started initially street performing, books and engagements that way, yeah, and I ended up moving to Atlanta. Try to make this dream come true

And there's some you know, hardships along the way, a couple challenges, and then I figured out the whole thing was about marketing. And then, once I figured that out, I just kind of ran with it and so initially started just performing and helping companies sell their products at trade show meeting.

**Dean Jackson**

Nothing draws attention like a good magician. Right, that's something, yeah.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, it actually is the best thing in that environment, and then for instance, you got to share your story about foster care, and nobody wants to hear that mess, you know, and but she stayed on me about it. So then I transitioned into speaking and became known as a magician with a message.

 

**Dean Jackson**

And there was all the same stuff, same marketing.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Just called myself something different essentially, and told my story and a couple solutions and then there after that I started to work with other people on building their speaking business and the whole thing.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So and so yeah, but I still go out perform for clients.

 

**Eric Anderson**

That's great. Yeah, yeah. So I do that.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Have a lot of fun doing that, yeah, and so you travel to do that, like to go to all the conventions, or do you do it mostly in Atlanta when conventions? Atlanta is a real convention place, right, people, it is.

 

**Eric Anderson**

It's all back a little bit, but everybody thinks you're better if they got to fly you someplace. So, you know I've been all over the place doing it. Once I had kids I started to kind of tone that back a bit and started to think about okay, what are the other options I could use to still do what I'm doing and do what I love to do, without all the travel and still?

 

**Dean Jackson**

love the travel.

 

**Eric Anderson**

It's fine, it's not, you know, but it can be a lot special with kids. So then, that's you know, with the seminar business, the consulting, all that stuff.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Awesome. So how does the business work now? What's your primary focus? How does it and what can we focus on today for you?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Okay, what the primary focus now is. I'm really focusing on the teaching other people. The business is speaking, okay, right, sharing your story message and I do speaking for newbies, right. So I have domains and all that stuff attached to that stuff and, just you know, showing people that are brand new to it. Hey, here's how you go out and get paid to begin engagements and how to go out and get checks.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Also how to. If you want to go do the speak to sell model, I just show them everything right, to show them the whole thing. So from there I'll lead them into a. It's been a free seminar. I'm testing a paid version of that now, but a free seminar, two day seminar and then from there is a live or in or on zoom.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Two day free seminar that people can come to, okay, yep.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yep.

 

And so yeah, during the pandemic, obviously doing it on zoom, and so started doing live again last year, actually a couple years ago really. And so, yeah, I do it right now four times a year. Looking at you know, doing that a little bit more and I'm just honestly I'm testing a few different whether they get a product right. You know, online course type of thing, whether they get that, and private coaching. People love the private one on one of course aspect of it. And then the next phase is I'm trying to figure out how to get a results back.

 

So just doing a real intimate, like live event for everybody, like a four day event where they go in, they get the pictures done, you get a website, they get everything with all the marketing, curious, all the like and so I haven't done that last part yet, but yeah.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Right. So when people come to the two day event, you're giving them the overview, you're showing how everything works, and then they have a chance to join. What? How does that happen? Yeah, what do you offer them? Is it a certain amount of time course, or is it working on?

 

**Eric Anderson**

one Correct, so they either have an application process right so they can get the course right online, just do self study, just do all that stuff on their own. And then, if they want me to work with them, I tell them look, just put a P on application and we talk. We'll talk about that, Okay. And I just want to see where you're at, see what's going on, see if I can even help you, see if the course is best or the one on one is best.

 

And pretty much everybody wants to one on one, it's fairly it's 10,000. So it's not, it's obviously things higher and lower and I meet with them every couple of weeks and I just do those meetings on Mondays and Tuesdays and yeah that's great.

 

**Dean Jackson**

And how long do you, how long do you work with them?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Well, okay, so here's the guarantee.

 

 **Dean Jackson**

I say like I work with you and I tell them, assuming they're taking action and actually doing stuff right Because there's people that age, money and just you know I can't do anything about that.

 

**Eric Anderson**

But if you're taking action and doing stuff, I'll work with you, even though we may get off our schedule, but I'll still communicate with them. I'll work with them until they make at least three times their investment back. Wow, okay, yeah, and if some people do that immediately, a couple of webinars like get through that immediately, and then we just get through everything else that they want to get done.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Well, that's pretty exciting. So if you were to like, if we look back at the people that you work with, what's your success rate on that? Let's say that if they make how many of them you know out of the last 10 that you've worked with, if you kind of back-test, it got to the three times ROI.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Okay, so the last couple have made their investment. Well, I'm sorry, made their investment back, plus a little bit more, in the first webinar.

 

**Dean Jackson**

You mean the first webinar that they did, or correct in their first webinar, right Okay?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Correct In their first webinar, so I've changed the guarantee of that Initially actually initially it was they make 10 times.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Oh, wow, yeah, yeah, because I know if they do it, they can do it. And it was they got to make it back.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Well, they got to do it in 18 months, right?

 

**Dean Jackson**

So the initial oh, don't know the numbers- Well, I'll tell you the reason I'm asking you right, okay, so that part of the thing. Clearly you're confident that you can get the result. Clearly you've got a track record of people who have taken your training and gotten the results and are you know how long have you been? Who's your longest running case study kind of thing of people that you've worked with.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Probably the longest one is three years, just under three years. It's closer to a year and a half technically, but yeah, she's been around for about three years Right.

 

**Dean Jackson**

And what you're teaching people is you're building for them an engine that's going to get them in contact with people who can, that they can monetize an audience kind of thing or that, or get hired by speakers, right, and they're going to use the knowledge that you work together with them on. They're using that. Three years later, that information is the formation, the engine of what drives the revenue that they're, that they're bringing in right. What they learned by working with you, by implementing it and doing it over a period of time, they've gotten many multiples of the money that they spend with you. So part of what really is important is to be able to document the success of the people that you work with, both for the people who you're doing it with, to really confirm to them that it was a good investment, that they've made money on that investment, and also for people coming in behind them that they can see. It's almost like the way I do these things we document everything month by month with people on the cumulative amount of revenue that they've made. So if you look at it, let's say, somebody you know has on their path to a hundred thousand. Let's just use the 10 times as the thing, because eventually everybody's going to get to 10 times that if they're implementing it right. So you just show the path that if they're doing. If in their first thing they made $10,000, then they did it again and they made another 10,000, that's 20,000, and then two months later they did 30, 40, 50,. You're starting to see that $10,000 one time investment that they made is compounding on the return of it. And so what's important for you to know and the reason I ask if you date it back, test it for yourself. It would be good to know how many people actually get the result and to look at the people who don't get the result and look for clues as to why they didn't get the result.

 

So when we were doing this with, I have a company called Money Making Websites and we do websites for real estate agents, and one of the things that we were doing we were selling them, one at a time, to individual realtors. We would go through the whole process of they would call, they'd ask about the website. We'd take them on a tour of it, show them how everything works, make the offer to them. Maybe they'd like to talk to a couple of our clients to confirm that everything is the right thing. But I was documenting all of the results that people were getting and they were getting, in the first year, 8, 15, 20 times ROI on their investment and I started thinking. The question that I was asking myself was what would I do if I only got paid, if they got the result? So I first silently started asking that question and then looking back and in that process I identified what would have happened if that had been my offer with the last 10 people that came through and there were a couple of people who didn't get the results and I started recognizing like why is it?

 

I started, then I went all the way back. I was looking at everybody and I started seeing patterns of why people weren't successful. And the things were, if they were in a town that was too small, that it was all driven by Google AdWords. So if you're in Atlanta, like our client Zach Pazmanek I don't know if you know Zach, but he's a big real estate agent in Atlanta you know Atlanta, there's lots of search volume, right. But if you are a real estate agent in Warner Robins, there's not going to be the same amount of search volume as there is of somebody looking in Atlanta, so they weren't getting the same traction that somebody with a bigger population base would, or it was people who were brand new real estate agents who didn't even know what to do if they got somebody who wanted to buy a house. And so I started looking at that and I started setting parameters for who I was going to work with and I decided you know the thing was I started inviting people.

 

If you live in a town of more than 20,000 people, you've been in real estate for at least one to two years. You personally work with buyers and sellers. You've got time to work with at least two new buyers a month, starting next month. You're friendly and coachable and you can keep a secret. Then reply to me, tell me a little bit about your business and I'll be picking people for the pilot program next month. And it was really. It was a game changer, because when I got really clear on who is the person that's the best for me, that give us the confidence then to be able to make a more compelling offer.

 

So I look at it and I wonder for you have you noticed any patterns? Are there people who don't have success or that you could recognize ahead of time, or do you part of your application process? Are you choosing them? Are you vetting that kind of thing of how likely they are to get the result? Or sometimes, if people are paying in advance and I'm not saying that you need to switch to where people can pay over the pay after they get the results I'm just putting that out there as a way of getting more confidence in your conversion abilities when you actually know what's going on. If you can identify and nip it in the bud that these people are not likely to be successful. If you look at it, we would find out there's probably 20% of the people just never get out of the gate. Like you say, people buy the course and they just don't do anything. That happens, but not if they're working with you one-on-one. It seems like they'd have to be.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, well, I know with the one-on-one. So I'll help them get their books down. I'll help them get publicity. Some come in. They're real kind of I don't have anything, that's OK. Great, let's go get some publicity and now you're incredible. So we show them how to do that. And then sometimes I know it's fear of just kind of doing the webinar. So I'll do an interview process with them, kind of an interview to an A-format webinar. It works really well. I'm doing one tonight with a lady actually which does work well with them.

 

But I think the thing that really gets the people, the results is, I mean, based on what you're talking about, the parameters is, and this isn't always held up to, but if they already have a list of people right that they're maybe not in communication with but have a small audience, at least a small audience folks.

 

**Dean Jackson**

How do you define smart? What's the threshold for you? What would be Like you know?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Well, and again, I'm still working through that. But the last thing I work with, she had eight people show up on her webinar and one closed at $13,000, right, so then somebody else was actually closed, but we're just talking about that, so I think that's the smallest. And now I just said go grab your business cards, all those contacts, all that stuff you've been doing over the years, right, and let's just put all that together, your emails you've been sending out and let's start there first and so, honestly, I don't have an exact number, but I guess, on average, a few hundred people on their email list to start with.

 

**Dean Jackson**

That's enough. And you know what I always do, eric. I think about. I like to personify that Like I look at when you think about 300 people on an email list. Doesn't sound like much when you're thinking in terms of things, but if you pack 300 people into a community theater that seats 250 people, it's a standing room audience. And imagine you up on stage talking to a packed house of 300 people. It's the same.

 

You'd be excited about that right but you put 300 people in a stadium and it seems so sparse, right, disappointing. But when you contextualize it, it's the greatest thing, and people often don't revere what they actually have. I mean, even with people you think about, a lot of times people think that a list of 10,000 is a small list, but you think about 10,000 people in a small arena. I mean you think about there's 30, carnegie Hall seats, 3,500 people. But if you told you were speaking to a sold out crowd at Carnegie Hall, that'd be impressive, right, but it's 3,400 people. So you know, yes, it's kind of a really interesting contextual thing and I agree with you that the more people you know, you don't have to have a huge audience. You gotta have a beginning audience, you know, and that's could be a few hundred people.

 

**Eric Anderson**

So, yeah, I think she started with a list of about 300. I think it grew to about 400 over time, but in that year and a half she had, you know she had broke the six-figure mark. She was, you know, stoked about that and that was doing like five webinars and then just some of the back-end follow-up stuff you know do normally.

 

**Dean Jackson**

And you know, there's some of the things too. I mean, if you're, it depends what the context of the audience is too. You know, it's it depends who. If you're looking for people. There was a great podcast. Do you ever listen to the? How? I built this podcast with Guy Raz.

 

So he had one episode with with Miles Copeland, who was the manager of the police, stuart Copeland's brother and and he was talking about when they were starting out with the police in England in the, you know, mid-70s. He realized he thought to himself you know, the number one job of a manager is to. You know, let make sure people know your band exists. Right, that's the number one thing. And then he realized that there's really some people are. It's more important that some people know than others. And the people who really matter there's there are the three or 400 venue bookers in the UK, the people who book acts for the bars and clubs and venues that play live music. Those 400 people are far more important than the rest of them because they're the doorway to all of the, you know, to a bigger audience. So he took it on himself. He created a magazine that he distributed only to those 400 people. It looked like a real like magazine, but he was only speaking to that audience and would put glowing articles about his bands in the article in the magazine and it was going out to the people and all of a sudden they would start booking all these, all these bands, and it was.

 

It's pretty funny when you look at if you're a speaker. I worked with Alex Epstein who wrote the moral case for fossil fuel, and we, you know, big speaker, consultant in the energy field, and when we really thought about it, you know we looked at the audience. There's really only 250 people that can hire him in North America and those are the 250 CEOs or, you know, leaders of the 250 largest energy companies in North America, and so we built a strategy around just getting in front of those 250 people. So, yeah, so you look at depends on who you're. You know whether somebody's trying to be a speaker who gets hired to speak to bigger groups or somebody who's trying to build their own audience to. You know to get their message out on their own, that people are coming to them for the message. You know, and I imagine you work with both, I do.

 

**Eric Anderson**

And, as I said, still trying to refine the audience, like sometimes get caught up in that. Caught up in the audience is not bad, but depending on how I market the event or depending who shows up at when I'm marketing that.

 

Some folks are, you know, we're willing, but they just can't make the investment right, and then some people figure it out and then you know we kind of move forward with those folks, but again deciding myself. You know I want to go after a particular. You know, instead of being kind of an open ended thing and really wanting to really help people, the event by itself is really good and they can really walk away with some good stuff, like whether they invest or not.

 

**Dean Jackson**

How many people come to your event typically.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, it's limited to just below that.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Perfect, and they're coming from all over.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, yeah, some people are flowing in. It's in Atlanta. Some people are flowing in. Most of the people are from Atlanta in the Atlanta area, but people are definitely coming from New York and Minnesota, other places, that's awesome Congratulations, yeah, yeah.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So what was on your mind today of, like, I love talking about all those the philosophical things and thinking through structure stuff, but is there, let's make it practical for you here what would be, you know kind of what's on your mind of the things that you'd love to solve here?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, okay, so I know people complete the application. It's usually about 30%. 40% of those people close on something and they usually go for the other. They usually go for the private thing. But again, looking at the event, other ways to fill the room, I've tried radio advertising. That didn't do a thing Right, but I was testing. I was fine with it. I was testing Facebook has worked. Vembrides worked really well. What works the best is just what I call you know a joint venture somebody to help fill the room up.

 

Anybody moves forward, they get a percentage of that and that usually works the best. But just you know, playing with other ideas on putting people in the room, whether I mean I like to 50, you know folks maybe want to expand that a little bit with some other ideas for people.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So let's get some metrics for you here then. So of the so you get 50 people in the room and you go through the two day training, and how many people typically will apply for either the course or the or working with you one on one out of the 50?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, there's. Yeah, we just call it a 50.

 

**Dean Jackson**

I'm about 20% and I'm trying to factor.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, sometimes I have previous students that are coming in too.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So they've already. There are a lot of it.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, so you say out of 50, 20 of them. So what if that is 10, 20%?

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah, so that's 40% actually.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, yeah, so 40% that actually can be completed.

 

**Dean Jackson**

And then about 20 or 30% of those will do one on one.

 

 **Eric Anderson**

Correct. Well, either the one on one, or just the private, or just the home study version of it.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Okay, and how much is the home study version?

 

 **Eric Anderson**

It's 1500.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Okay, but it's kind of yeah, it's 50 or what's called 15. Yeah, Okay, Great. So this is great. So the bottom line is and you enjoy doing those events like they're yeah.

 

So would you if you could? Would you do one every month? Would, if that was, if you could fill, yeah. So there's one possible way. I'm just looking to see what your capacity is for this, right, like, the only limitation for you is having 50 people willing to come and you feel like, and you're able to do that four times a year. You can fill that with 50, with 50 people, right? So if we could get to where you could fill that 10 or 12 times a year, that would be a good, that would be a good thing.

 

I would say that you are already. You're not going to have a. I look for breakthroughs, right? My whole model is let's look for the breakthrough blueprint here, and you know you're not going to have, you're not going to have a breakthrough in converting more of the people who are in the room. You're already, it's already. You're already converting at a pretty high level for what you're, for what you're doing, for people coming to a free event. For 40% of them, they want to continue working with you and 20 or 30% of those to want to work with you at the highest level, one on one is a great metric and so and you've got that dialed in. That's a proven algorithm. If we could just put 50 people in the room, they're going to come out the other. And now it's how do we get more people into the room? So how many people do you have on your list or in your world that? How do you invite people to this? Who? How do they get the word that you're doing this event and how?

 

**Eric Anderson**

yeah, I'll run. Well, last time I ran some Facebook ads were decently event-brained People in my work on that particular list. I'll also go to my house list right. But on that particular list it's right at about 3000 on that list roughly.

 

**Dean Jackson**

I mean, this is Eric, you've got a real, like substantial thing here. You know you think about what you're able to do with a list of 3000 people. Those are people who have is the entry into your world coming to the event Like. Is that the first thing that they're doing? Often, when you say you're running Facebook ads, you're running them in you know a radius around Atlanta, or you're running them nationally or in Georgia.

 

**Eric Anderson**

For the event of radius around Atlanta. And then I have a how far out I was right around 25 miles?

 

**Dean Jackson**

Okay, so within a 25 mile radius of Atlanta, what selects are you? How are you picking the people that you're showing the ad to?

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, what was it? It was like Toastmasters. Okay, public speaking entrepreneurship yes, some of the other like influencers they might be following right. Yeah, those, yeah with those types of things there.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Tell me about the ad that you're running. Tell me about what they. What would show up in my news feed here. What did you say?

 

**Eric Anderson**

a couple of them just trying to discover, basically discover how to become a page right. So free event just go out and become a page, big guy you know some copy.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Is it a video or a static, static ad? So free event. And you put the date on there and the is it come to the event. Is that the offer of the ad? Basically?

 

 **Eric Anderson**

Well, no not really so the ad is just to get them to the website and then the website gives them a little bit more Detail with the date and all that type of stuff. Okay, so I want to be after their information, if they are interested, and then follow up with them and then tell them all the other Details perfect.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So when they opt in, or is the opt-in that they're opting in to come to the event or to Get more information about the event, or what am I trading? My name and email, okay, and so how much does it cost you to get an event registration? I think on the like I said.

 

**Eric Anderson**

I just tested Facebook after the first time. The last time I did it. Yeah, I think I invest maybe 1500, 2000 in that range some other stuff I was playing with. But yeah, in that.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Well, I'm sorry but event registration.

 

**Eric Anderson**

I think about 200 people signed up from that.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So whatever that is that I mean, I had the numbers, but whatever that is divided by the color, 1500 so about $50, let's say number registration yeah, and then about 25% of them come to the event. Is that the Roughly, yeah.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, pretty much everybody from Facebook came last time or was there?

 

 **Dean Jackson**

so did people come from the? From your list as well? So it wasn't the 50 people in the event. Weren't all from Facebook? Is that what you're saying?

 

 **Eric Anderson**

I think I had two students come from my list that I'm kind of showing them behind the scenes. Yeah, just a couple from the list last time Facebook and event right, with the vast majority coming from Facebook.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Okay last.

 

**Eric Anderson**

each time I kind of something yeah, that makes you yeah okay.

 

 **Dean Jackson**

So I think that the You're. The first thing that I look at is. I think there's a big opportunity for you to Do what I call separating the compelling from the convincing, and that when you're running an ad to a cold audience and your offer is to Come to a live event, what is required of them is that they live within 25 miles of Atlanta, they're interested in public speaking, they're willing to come to an event and they're available on the dates that the event is right. That's all requirements in order for somebody to opt in. Right, so it's a register for the event.

 

And If we look at it as concentric circles there You've got the whole audience of people, of everybody who lives in the 25 mile Bubble there, who's also, who's interested in public speaking and whatever other selects. You've made that audience. And then you've got the bullseye there concentric circle, of the 50 people that come to the event that say, yes, I'd like to do it, and they're they're a subset of the people immediately around that, the 200 people that say yeah, I'll come, but only the 25% actually end up at the event. Right, so you've got 200 there, but what you're missing out on is the bigger pool of people are Interested in public speaking and interested in making money with their you know, with their With by talking or doing, having a message, but they're not available to come to those dates, or they're not.

 

If you had a book that somebody could Raise their hand because you've got what we call invisible Prospects. You can't get a list of people who have a dream of being a public speaker, right, so right where you're getting the ones who are? It's a pretty high bar that they have to jump over that they're committing Two days to come to something you know?

 

do you do it on a weekend or do you do it on yeah yeah, so everybody, if they're working or whatever, they could come on the weekend and do it. But I believe that in you know you could get you know three to five times more people who would download a book then would Register to come to the thing. But you could immediately invite the people that download the book on the confirmation page on the next thing To come to the workshop. So the people who would come are still in there. They're a subset of the people, but what you're doing is you're getting a bigger audience of people. It'd be very valuable for you if we could just wave a magic wand and get everybody in the bubble who's interested in being a public speaker, getting paid for for speaking. If they were on your, if they would jump on your list, that would be a valuable thing because now you get a chance to Convince them over time, to educate and motivate them. Right that you've got now, instead of you're adding 200 people, what if you could add a thousand people for that same $2,000? You know and I think you could do even more than that that you know if you could get those leads for let's even say, ten dollars a lead, if you spent $2,000 on those ads and you could get. You know you get more people that way, right? Yeah, it's kind of a. It's a really interesting.

 

Yeah, it's a really interesting thing when you start thinking about what you could, what you could do there, because now you're building this list in Atlanta or in the 25 mile bubble there of people who have raised their hand and Said I'm interested in public speaking, in all you would have to do is change. You do basically a book Verge of your all the information that you used to get them to want to come to the workshop. You know they're still okay. You know what I mean. What are you calling the workshop or what are the words that you're using to describe what they're going to get? If you put that on a book cover, you know, if you'd put they came up with a title that the promise of what you're making For people who come to the event that would be a very valuable List for you if you could. You know, instead of getting, instead of getting 200 of them, we could get a thousand of them or get whatever.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Okay now you are you saying okay, well, go ahead well now you've got, then you've got more time now to Demonstrate.

 

**Dean Jackson**

You know and I will talk a little bit about what your conversion process is like. How often do you communicate with the people on your List, and do you ever have a period where Someone who opted in To come to the last event but didn't make it then decides, oh, I'm gonna come to the next one? Do you ever have people right? Yeah, I'm sure you have people like that right. So you're just getting people in the thing and you're Percolating them that way, but how often do you communicate to the three thousand?

 

**Eric Anderson**

five days a week. So I have the emails. I'd call it Eric's escapades reality show. Delivered your inbox? I think, yeah, and I just money through Friday, and it's usually tips, and then, once the event coming around, I start. You know, yeah, that process.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Some links to attend. Yes, so that's great. So you've already got. You got all the ingredients here, eric. We just need a different, a little bit of a different packaging, a different Rapper for some of it.

 

You know that if we should okay, you know, imagine if, instead of just doing it, thinking of it as a Wave to promote an event, you start doing. You know what, if you were open every day and you could start gathering people you know who are interested in public speaking. You know more, anytime doesn't have. It's not just a push for the event, but you get somebody who else have to say listen. People always Focus and I'm sure you've heard it said that people have to know you, like you trust you, that you have to, but they think about it as one thing know you, like you, trust you. They read it as one thing. Right, that's the destination and in my mind, they don't properly Properly revere the jump from not knowing you to knowing you. That when somebody you know and, more importantly, you not knowing them.

 

There are probably People walking around the 25 mile bubble there that have a dream of being a public figure and they don't even know that you exist and you don't know that they exist. But if you did know you'd be a blessing to them. You know you'd be something that would be, and they'll be the best thing that could happen to them to get to know you. Right, you're the guy equipped to help them. Help them do that. So finding people you know who have that dream is a big thing, and so separating the convincing them to come to an event from Compelling them to let you know that they've got the dream, that's a you know. That's a bigger thing that now, rather than just having to show, adds to the whole. You know all of the Facebook. There are all the people that you've selected. You now get five times a week to get in front of people who you know are interested in that dream. Okay, because they asked for a book called what's the title of your workshop.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Well speaking for newbies.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So now, if that were, imagine, people who are willing to come to an event called speaking for newbies Would be super excited if they could download a book called speaking for newbies. Yep, that's for me.

 

You're right, yeah, so if you just had a book cover and you know a simple way. You know it doesn't have to be. This is one of the things is that when you're using a book for lead generation, it doesn't have to be a big. People think about a book as this big 250 page thing that you spent a year working on and pouring your heart and soul into, but the reality is. The only thing that's important when you're using a book for marketing is you've got to have a book, you got to have a title that, as soon as they see it, they say that's the book for me and you got to have a way for them to get it right. Go here or just click. We use the lead ads on Facebook so they never even have to leave Facebook to opt in and we get the lowest cost per conversion there.

 

So you know what people don't know. When they see that book, they make their decision 100% on. Is this something that I want? There's a book that's available for me to get it and all I have to just click this download link. That's very friction free for me to do that, right. But what they don't know or care about is whether that book is 50 pages or 250 pages Doesn't make a difference in the response rate, doesn't matter how long it took you to write it or how carefully you crafted the third sentence of you know chapter three, that you rolled it around in your mind and it's a masterful paragraph. It doesn't matter. What's the most important. The only thing that makes the boat go faster is the title that you chose and the fact that you are calling out your ideal prospects and you know, in 50 pages it's the equivalent of.

 

I think about it as, like you know, a webinar in a bookenar kind of thing. Like that's our idea. I own a company called 90 Minute Books and we help people do those kind of books that we set it up so that you imagine that you're, we're going to interview you for an hour and the idea is that everybody in the audience is your ideal prospect and we've got one hour to educate them and get them excited about coming to your event or doing your home study program or working with you one on one. That's the idea. Right Is, what would you and I'm sure you do, webinar? You say you do a webinar that converts people into coming to the event. That's what we're. Do you call the webinar? Speaking for newbies? Is that the so that?

 

**Eric Anderson**

message I do, yeah, yeah, that's the speaking for newbies. I do.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah, that message is right on right, like for your. It's a proven message. You've proven it because you get people to come to your event and then, when they're there, they sign up to work with you. So I think that's what it is. Let's keep that open every day. Let's get, let's keep gathering people that are speaking for newbies.

 

Would you consider driving up to Charlotte or flying up to Charlotte to do the same type of thing? Oh yeah, so you think about, if you're doing four in Atlanta, that maybe you do two in Charlotte, or you come down to Orlando and do one in Orlando and you maybe do one in Nashville or whatever. You just look at how can we expand this bubble of the people. But I think if you're doing it by, you know, I think if you did it, you could expand to a national audience, even just doing it by Zoom. You know, if you portioned out the, if you did, instead of a two day live event, you did a, you know, a four week session of you know two hour sessions on Zoom Right, that could be a really good thing where people have home space, learning in a way that leads to the next, that needs to the next thing.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Okay, that's fantastic. So you used to both invite them to the webinar or, you know, live event wherever they happen to be located yeah, or in Atlanta.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah, they opt in as soon as they opt in. That's really what we're. Now you've got. You're in conversation with someone who is a your ideal prospect, right, right, certainly they've jumped through some hoops to get to that point. I mean, they live in that area, they saw your ad, they resonated with the speaking for newbies and want to know how to become a speaker and get paid and they left voluntarily their name and their contact information for you. Now you've got you're. You've got a great audience.

 

I would say imagine to people that, imagine if you could, if the opt in button was a magic portal that brought people to your office and as soon as they press download, they get magically sucked into the computer and they pop out at your office. They poke their head in the door and they say hey, eric, I'm here about the speaking for newbies book. How would you have that conversation with them? That's where your conversion process starts. You know, thinking about it one-on-one like that, and if you could have people, you know if you could have 10, 20, 50 people a day knocking on your door like that? Yeah, it's pretty exciting.

 

**Eric Anderson**

That's a game changer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but they're not necessarily related to that particular topic and I was going to use those as lead gen. But, like you said, make it related to the exact topic, yeah, you got to start with.

 

**Dean Jackson**

What's the promised land Cause ultimately you want to have on the cover. You know speaking for newbies, and then you know your subhead would kind of lead to where the journey of where this goes, kind of thing right, how to get paid, how to get booked, how to get paid, how to get you know back. That kind of thing is. If somebody's raising their hand, that's the destination that they're interested in and you're that's a through line all the way through your you know, watch my emails every day, come on the webinars that I do or come to a live event and that pathway to I can get you to that that promised land and you're demonstrating it all the way. You know it's kind of a very cool thing.

 

Do you end your emails and stuff?

 

Do you feature I a lot of times in our real estate world I'll call them field reports where I'm showing and highlighting people who have had success using one of our programs. So if you, if every time somebody books a, you know their first paid gig kind of thing, or the first time they make money, get paid for speaking, if you're, you know, celebrating that and highlighting them, and you know, almost like if you set up this like right of passage type of thing, right Like where you're documenting it as you as you go, almost like American Express has the you know member since 1997 or whatever, that if somebody's like you know I got paid in 32 days or in 30, you know 40 days or 90 days or whatever the thing is that you're celebrating their, their success and doing it. I coined a phrase of I call it contentimonials where you're sharing, you're unpacking the lessons of what it took for them to get that result, which is far more powerful than just a testimonial of somebody saying Eric's great, he really you know where it's all about you. That's not helpful to anybody. What's helpful is the shining the light on the path that they took to get there.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, okay, no, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I like people, but it's more so I shared a little bit, but it's you know maybe what they made, or here's what they did, and but yeah, if you're, no, you're, I was a bit incorrect about it. I like that more. That path that's fantastic.

 

**Dean Jackson**

And then the only other thing and I haven't seen any of your emails, but one of the things that I would love to see for you is that every time you send out an email, there's an opportunity for somebody to take the next step. You know and so you look at that where you know if you get my emails, the. You know they send out three or four emails a week and every time, the very bottom of the email that's how you got here is the. You know, the offer of plus whenever you're ready. Here's four ways I can help you is be a guest on more cheese, less whiskers, and that's how you ended up here, I'm sure. Right, you know and that's part of the thing that I always look at it that I don't want to necessarily have to wait until you know your next event in 90 days to start helping somebody get the result. Let's if there's a way to create it so that there's an opportunity for it to be now for somebody, cause the only two time frames there are is now and not now.

 

And you know. So I always want it to be. The only time somebody could take action is now, and so I was like for it to be an opportunity, every time I communicate with someone, for it to be now for them that they're ready. That's why I would say, whenever you're ready Cause it's not I'm not trying to convince somebody to do something it's essentially saying listen, I'm standing by to help you. We're ready when, whenever you are, all you have to do is one of these things you know.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, okay, now that's great. That's one thing I don't do. Enough is I don't want to really call it an offer, but I guess I use doing more offers in the email. But yeah, I've seen your, you know, also learned it from Dave D when he started doing it. Yeah, dave is.

 

**Dean Jackson**

He's come to a couple of my events. Dave's a good, so Dave's got his super signatures in every email there. Yeah, yeah, he was living up there with you. Now he's in Florida here.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Mar-No-Island? Yeah, he just moved. He's talking about all the Italians who had asked Dave, I gotta go down to Florida now to get it.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah, that's funny. Well, I mean, eric, what's your, what's your takeaway here? What's your? That went fat.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, well, the big takeaway really is using the book, being congruent with the book and using that, as you know, open 24 hours a day.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah.

 

**Eric Anderson**

You know, lead lead generator and I have a video right now that I'm converting. It's the 25 minute. I call it my super simple seminar plus a 25 minute seminar. But converting that into a book, yeah, that's happening right now.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Perfect, that's exactly what I would do. And then you'd still you know, you've got the book but nobody's gonna connect the dots you could still cause some people like to read, some people like to watch, some people like to. Just so, you know, along with the book, you could get people to consume the, watch, the video, you know.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, no, that's great. Yeah, no. So yeah, that's the big takeaway and, just like you said, being open 24 hours a day. Eventually I will take this around the country.

 

 **Dean Jackson**

And then I still go back and forth with my head.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Do I just want to do it online or you know, but I do like the in-person, you know, at fans, kids and babies type of thing, and great things you know, one of the great opportunities you have when you're doing live events is to build audience in the places you want to go.

 

**Dean Jackson**

You know. So, pre-covid, I'll get back to it next year, but you know, for six years I did my breakthrough blueprint events. I do three day live events and so I would do every summer, I would do a summer tour and I would do. I had most of the events I do in Orlando all winter, but then in the summer I would do Toronto, london, amsterdam and Sydney, australia. So every year I would go to those places where I love to spend time.

 

But it's like you're you know you're having a great experience, like I love doing the events. I'm sure you love doing your events. But would it be great, you know, if you could go and do those events and extend your time and spend some time in those places where you go, but you're getting paid to do it as well. You know it's kind of that's a fun way to think about setting up your calendar. You know when do? What places do you want to frequent? Do you want to go back to San Diego? You know, a couple of times a year you do an event in San Diego or do in San Francisco or Las Vegas or whatever your you know, build hubs wherever you want to do the events Right.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, no, you're very yeah, yeah. The other question, I don't know if you have, yeah, we got time With the Legion ads on Facebook which I've used and they worked and seemed to not work. Is that do you find that in conversion ads it's pretty much the same type of person, the same individual.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah, it's all. You're fishing in the same pond, right? It's just a mechanism. I find it. You know that you're going to the max. I want to lean on the side of getting more leads. I want to get the maximum. If somebody's willing to give their email address, then I know that there's a good chance that if they're in my pond and we keep they're around other, you know they're seeing we're getting to nurture them and, you know, feed them and they get to be in that world and start to see you're emailing them five times a week. You're, they're seeing other people who are getting the results.

 

What's going to happen is somebody, you know, let's say 90 days from now, somebody is going to, you know, come to your next event. They get out of the gate really quickly and they get their paid thing. That whole thing could happen in 60 days, kind of thing. Right, go from. I saw the Facebook and when you're telling the field report, they're going to say you know, I saw the ad on, I saw the post come through on Facebook.

 

I decided to come to the event and I just loved everything about it and then I dove right in. I did worked with with Eric one-on-one and, you know, within 30 days I had my first webinar and I had my first. I got paid for the thing. Now that all happens in that 30 or 60 days, somebody who opted in for the book nine months ago or a year ago is going to hear they've been just lurking and watching and not diving in and they're going to see that somebody just like them came in, took action, got the result all in the time that they've been sitting around watching. You know it's a big motivator.

 

It's a big encouragement for for people.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, yeah.

 

**Dean Jackson**

So I'd love it. That'd be great to get your. You know, take your list from 3000 to 10,000 and now you're really that'd be something.

 

**Eric Anderson**

Yeah, yeah, cool, yeah, I'm definitely gonna implement it. Yeah, I know you say, let us know how it goes, absolutely I would definitely do that.

 

**Dean Jackson**

Yeah, okay, well, thank you Eric, it's been a delight. I think you got a great. You got a great opportunity there, awesome, well, yeah, thanks for all the other stuff you do.

**Eric Anderson**

I don't know when I started following you and watching your stuff, but you know, dial-in marketing focus find you're all this stuff. I don't know when, but it's been a while, so I really appreciate this and everything else you do so Awesome.

**Dean Jackson**

Thanks, Eric.

**Eric Anderson**

Have a great day, thank you.

 **Dean Jackson**

Thanks.