Welcome to the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast. Today we have an exciting episode with Justin Brooke. Justin is a monster in the online media and ad buying world. He has a wonderful training program at AdSkills.com where he trains people in not just Facebook ads, but buying all kinds of media ads. Everything from getting leads, to making initial sales, he's the guy.

We had a really great conversation about, what does he do with that now? Where does it go? What's the biggest opportunity? We focused on the wonderful opportunity of not just sharing the skills of how to do something, or teaching people how to do something, but really leveling up and talking about the result. How can we package a result rather than just the knowledge to getting that result?

We had a really great discussion, and it's interesting that Justin shared in the conversation, he was thinking along that same line that very day. We had a lot of fun hatching some evil schemes here, and you're going to enjoy this episode.

 

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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 069

Dean: Justin Brooke.

Justin: Hey Dean, how you doing?

Dean: This call is being recorded. Did you hear that?

Justin: I did.

Dean: You know what that means.

Justin: I do know what it means, man. I'm ready.

Dean: I've got my whole evil scheme hatching rig set up right here. I've been looking forward to this.

Justin: Cool. Me too, man. Since my birth.

Dean: Let's set the stage here. Tell a little bit about what you got going on and where we can jump off.

Justin: Okay. About me or about the business?

Dean: Yeah, about you. Because we've met just a few months ago or weeks ago, within the last 90 days I think.

Justin: Yeah.

Dean: So we've had a little bit of interaction that way. But I want to ... Normally when I'm doing these I have no idea who people are. For people listening in, we need to set that stage as if we're starting at square one here.

Justin: Alright. I got started about 10 years ago. I landed a spot as an intern with a multi-million dollar internet guy, Russell Brunson. My job as an intern was to review all of his courses and seminar footage and this huge library of material. So I got to study the greatest marketers in the world. I got the education of a lifetime.

Dean: Wow.

Justin: It was great. I really got to study amazing things. My job was to write review articles about these things so he could make affiliate connections. Unpaid internship, but I still got amazing education. Russ took me under his wing, showed me the business. Went back home, still broke, 'cause it's and unpaid internship.

I applied what I learned with an AdWords account. When I was learning everything in those seminars, to me it seems like paid traffic was the quickest, fastest way that I could get some success. So I set up a pathetic $2 a day ad campaign. I ended up doubling my money that month.

Dean: Hey.

Justin: It was great. I spent $60 and I ended up making $150 my first month. I doubled again and again and again. 11 months in a row doubled it. I had a six figure business, quite literally, Google Ads took me from eating Ramen noodles to eating Red Lobster. That's why, today, I'm a paid traffic guy.

Fast forward some, I've spent over 10 million dollars, acquired over 50 thousand customers for my clients. I've worked with Dan Kennedy and Agora, Ed O'Keefe, Russell Brunson, I've had a lot of success. It's been a good ride.

Now I run. I'm no longer for hire, service wise. I'm training the next generation of media buyers, because I believe it's really hard right now for people to hire an in-house media buyer. Or even to trust some of the agencies out there, that are trying to solve that problem for other businesses. Matching great media buyers with great businesses.

Dean: Wow, that's so great. Where do you think would be the best place for us to spend our time here to focus on what would have the biggest impact for you?

Justin: I think the biggest impact is where to go after I get somebody to opt in. I've thought a lot about that question and I knew this question was coming. With all your skills and with everything that I'm doing, for some reason, in my agency, it was really easy to know what to do after they opted in. But now, with AdSkills, we've got 12 different courses. And then there's workshops and then there's a community. I can only imagine if I'm thinking, "What do I do after they opt in and try and tell them where to go. If I'm confused, my customers gotta be confused."

Dean: Right.

Justin: So that's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm hoping-

Dean: Okay. Well let's start with this. I always like to start this journey then, with what would be the thing that you could do for somebody that would be a complete dream come true for them? What is it that you know, that when you look at it, this would just be so easy for you?

Justin: We have mainly, two different customers. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe that's why I've been struggling-

Dean: Exactly.

Justin: 60% of our customers are free lancers, agency guys, usually making six figures. They're not beginners. But they got some clients, they're trying to grow bigger. They're buying our courses because they want to be the best. They're trying to stay at the top of their game.

The other people who buy our courses are business owners who they don't want to learn Facebook Ads, they don't want to learn Google Ads. They want to buy this video course and give it to somebody on their team and have that person. There's kind of two answers to your question.

The business owner, the dream come true, we've started a free match-making service, where they fill out a form and we just pair them up with a media buyer. People that are looking for jobs as well as people that are looking for clients. That's been going kind of well, but we haven't really been doing it on purpose. For the agency guy, I'm a little stuck on. He wants to be the best. I'm a little stuck on what I can do for him.

Dean: Let's talk about why does he want to be the best? What are you ... To what end? How is he going to define best?

Justin: They believe that they can't charge higher prices unless they reach a certain point, they pay a certain amount of dues and then they would be able to magically raise their price. One of the things that they believe is, "If I were better at Facebook Ads or Google Ads or whatever. I'd be able to charge more." They want to be better because they want to raise their fees.

Dean: It's interesting that they end up, in a lot of ways, pricing themselves out of the market, in a way.

Justin: A lot of them do.

Dean: There's a culture of constantly raising the fees, raising the fees and everybody's bragging about that among the agency guys. That's how they try to establish themselves. "I charge this much." Or, "I charge this much." Or, "I only work with people with this much of a budget." It's all these kind of expansion thinking.

The reality is that the whole world of this advertising is an equal, it's a meritocracy. It's really about who can get the results for somebody. That's really the end of it, when it comes down to it. You know yourself, there are guys who are probably you've seen it in your world, that don't charge as much as some of the top guys, but actually get the same or better results than them.

Justin: There's a lot of inexpensive guys who get amazing results who should be charging more.

Dean: And there's an interesting element of it that when you break down the element of any kind of paid job, 'cause you're doing it all right, Pay-Per-Click, Facebook Instagram, all and media, any kind of online traffic you could imagine, you're doing it. That's what you're teaching people how to do.

So that's the big category of it that in any of those things it comes down to two pieces. It comes down to the creative of it and it comes down to the execution of it. The actual execution can be taught and learned by a lot of people. Right?

Justin: Yes.

Dean: If you're thinking about more of the executing a plan, how much of the time would go into the creative versus the execution? Could you break down that. How would you break down that value?

Justin: It's a really great question because a lot of people have it backwards. Almost everybody jumps right to buying ads. And they should be spending a lot more time planning the ads they're going to buy.

They should be planning the targeting, the messaging. Where are they going to buy? What pixels are they going to need? They should be spending 80% of their time in planning. And then the buying part, you can almost outsource that part to freelancer, it's just setting up campaigns. The planning that makes the money.

Dean: Right. Is there any resource for that? Is there any resource for the at the back end, we called it the back office stuff, the below the line stuff of the execution of it. Is there any marketplace for it?

Justin: We have those… Oh is there a marketplace? Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Dean: Is there a ... Would you say that the people who are coming to you, what you're teaching people, is more on the creative front or more on the technical front of what to do and how to do it?

Justin: It's both. We have the planning parts, how to research your customer. How to know what interest to use. How to know what makes a good ad. But we struggle to get people to watch those parts. I have to be super adamant, I have to almost say, "If you don't watch this part of the course then you're a dummy." It's like they all want to skip to, "How do I go set up the magical lookalike audience thing of the month that I heard about on wherever?"

Dean: And it's constantly changing, constantly moving.

Justin: It does. The latest thing now, there's dynamic creative Facebook Ads. And everybody wants to go do that campaign. But if they don't do the planning, they're going to struggle.

Dean: When you think about how much these things change, on the technical side, still. There's constantly new options, new things to keep on top of. I guess what I'm really curious about is thinking about how you can maximize the assets that you have to really create the biggest result. I always ask people, "What would be a dream come true for the person?" It's almost like what would be the thing that you could do for somebody if they would just get out of the way and let you do it?

I really believe that we're moving in a direction of definitely being able to push a button and have things happen. We're moving towards that. And there's never been a better time to be a creative or somebody who knows what to do really helps. I don't know that the real future is in teaching people how to do stuff, as much as it is in guiding them on what to do. And then having it done, how to get it done. You know?

Justin: Yeah. I think the most valuable thing that I could do is provide them with that planning. If they were to fill out some sort of questionnaire and magically, it gives them a media play and a document like we create that shows them, here's your link, here's your targeting, here's the images, ad lines, that would be insanely valuable to them. I also think, what they really want is Frank Kern has that four day cash machine. We kind of want the four day cash machine of Facebook Ads, of Google Ads of YouTube ads.

Dean: Yes. That's exactly it. When you're looking at pushing a button and being able to describe what they want. If you think about the outcomes that you can create with media. I look at it that it's, in my world, a profit activator too. Of getting, it's the first part, profit activator one, selecting your target audience. Profit activator two, getting them to raise their hand, compelling them to raise their hand. Turning invisible prospects into visible prospects.

When you look at it in the outcome, how are we going to do that? In most cases, they're either going to opt in or they're going to, in many cases, if it's a low priced front-end offer, they're going to buy something. But that first ... It's almost like it's all about creating that first interaction with somebody.

I'd look at it and there's lot of different ways to get to that level. But it's really about turning that invisible prospect into a visible prospect. Most of the things that you're doing, would you say they are lead generation or sale-producing activities? Like initial sale stuff. What's the-

Justin: You mean what I'm doing in my business?

Dean: Yeah. Well, what you're best at. Maybe what you're teaching in your business or what you're doing in your business. However you think that fits.

Justin: For me, lead gen is a piece of cake. I can get leads between 60 cents and $2 all day. Thousands per day. But I have most of the clients and what I teach has been sales pages, getting to the sale. Because a lot of people don't really want leads, they want sales. So I've become good at that as well. They would rather, if you ask them, "Do you want leads or sales?" They're going to say, "Sales." That's what our courses teach. We teach a lot more sales. I'd say it's 80 to 90% how to get a sale. And then there's also some ways to get leads.

Dean: What would be some of the top way that you think about that? How would you make that distinction? What would you do differently if your outcome is to get a sale versus getting a lead?

Justin: The first thing, pretty simple, you just drive to a sales page instead of a squeeze page.

Dean: Right, okay yeah.

Justin: But then you also have to make sure you're pre-framing it correctly. Where a lead, it's pretty easy to get a lead. You can make a lot of mistakes and still get some leads. Whereas, if you make some mistakes, you can lose sales really quickly. You gotta make sure that you're framing it correctly. You also have to make sure, there's compliance issues. You can't just ... A lot of people are trying to be too aggressive. Every copyrighting book in the world says a good headline is, "Here's how you can lose weight. Lose 30 pounds in 30 days." At almost every ad network, you can't say that.

Dean: Right. I get it.

Justin: That's the big problem is compliance, on the sales page.

Dean: Part of the thing that I wonder about is the value of the long term here. I was so excited about this, because I just got the info graphic of the results of a four year case study that I just finished with one of our real estate clients. It shows what happened over a four year period from September 2013 till last month. Four years from 13 to 17. It tracks the money that he spent along the bottom of the infographic, month by month.

He'd spent just over 50 thousand dollars. But he generated, over that four year period, $543,000. So an eleven to one ROI on the money that he spent. This is post cards, not online. This is offline stuff. But the amazing thing was that there were 22 transactions from people who responded in the first year, over these four years. In the first year he did six transactions from that group of the people who responded and sold their house.

But then he went on to do an additional 15 or 16 transactions. Almost three times more over the next four years. That, to me, is really showing this, I call it this capital investment mindset. As opposed to an expense based mindset. The lead generation or front end sales in a way. 'Cause that, there's somebody looking to go for the sale on the front end. Are they typically ... What would be the price range of things that people would choose that option for?

Justin: We tell them that if it's $100 or cheaper, that they should go right to the sales page. If it's over $100, they should generate a lead and build up the rapport.

Dean: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense, the way that the approach would go. But also, it's really interesting to think about how many more $100 sales could be made with a little bit of an extension out on the front end. Somebody thinking about what they're missing out on. If you look at what would be a win on a front end sale conversion like that? What percentage would you say would be a home run?

Justin: Home run would be like 2%, 3% or higher average is .5% to 1%

Dean: So a home run, let's call it 2% When you look at that, that means they've driven 100 people and two people bought. But then they don't know who the other 98 are. On a softer basis, you get to pixel them and kind of go with them again. You're doing re-targeting for those things.

But have you had people do the math on what it would look like if they could get a 50% opt in? Let's even go from cold traffic, a 20% opt in? Sending 100 people there and having 20 people instead of just the two ... I'd even think within the first 48 hours, the two who would buy for $100, are still within that 20. You could probably get them to buy right away anyway.

Justin: Yeah, you're right.

Dean: And still have those 18 people to-

Justin: Follow up with.

Dean: Extend out. Yeah, over that longer period of time. I just see, the more that I've been doing this and the more that I've been documenting everything, it's really become crystal clear, that all the money is in the long game.

Justin: So maybe I should be ... After they opt in, there should be a sequence telling them, "Here's a neat little campaign you can do to start getting some leads with such and such network and points them over to buy this course and you'll learn this neat little campaign."

Dean: There's something about this idea of building these lists or these categories. I'm thinking about this from your perspective here. You've got a broad array of people who are doing these thing, you mentioned agency guys or business owners. You'll take all of them and show them the actual business of it, how it all works, but are you doing anything specifically for a single target audience? If you were to say one ... I do a lot of syndication stuff, I take real estate agents. I've got all of the tools and things that they, to help them.

Are you building any assets like that, that could be push button deployed by a law firm or financial advisor or any type of business where they could get the outcome without having to learn it for themselves or hire somebody to learn it?

Justin: Not currently, no. We thought we were being narrow by just focusing on paid traffic and not focusing on all marketing. But I'm now seeing that it's still not narrow enough, because it's paid traffic for this type of business and that type of business. It's the biggest question we get is, "Will Facebook Ads work for lawyers? Will Facebook Ads work for this?

Dean: It's like part of the thing is like that, when you think about it, what a lawyer really wants to hear or what a dentist really wants to hear or what a financial advisor wants to hear is, here's some people who want to get their case handled and get their money handled or get their teeth fixed, or whatever it is.

I've just found, I break things into the before unit, the during unit and the after unit. Breaking the business into three distinct divisions. What most business owners really truly want, if they're practitioners, is they just want to be in their business. They just want to help people with whatever it is that they do.

They don't want to have to figure out all of this marketing stuff. That's not what they went to school for or what they opened the business for. They would, I think we're certainly at a point in time where that's available for them.

Justin: Yeah.

Dean: It feels like you got a unique opportunity in that you know how to do this. You could do it in your sleep. You were just saying that generating leads is so easy for you. You could fill a room with interns, like you were a part of who, to learn at your feet would be the biggest opportunity for them.

But to deploy that on a situation where you're helping create, what I call a scale-ready algorithm. 'Cause once you crack the code, 'cause that's the thing is, it's almost like the way I look at it and I think the way you would look at it in this situation is like, it's so easy for you, it's like doing Sudoku puzzle. You're just go, tink, tink, tink, tink, tink, there it is. And you figure that out. You can see immediately, the creative and the idea and know what to do.

For somebody, any local business to build a list of people, that's such an amazing asset for them. If they could get a list of 1,000 people for a few thousand dollars, that would be such a snowball for them. 'Cause it would give them such a great foundation to grow from.

Justin: Yeah, I'm understanding. I'm wondering if that means we have to change our courses. Or if there's something we could add to the courses?

Dean: Well I wonder-

Justin: I'm trying to think about how I'm going to apply it.

Dean: I wonder if you create an opportunity to create a marketplace for scale-ready algorithm, in a way. If people have already figured out this ad to this landing page gets this result on a local basis and you have an opportunity to license it to those people, to people in a particular business, that might be something unique.

Justin: It's amazing that you said that, because right now, me and my wife, we're sitting in a Regis office, our kids are up at their dad's so we had a day to just go into an office and white board and literally, five feet away from me on the white board is, marketplace and licensing, with a question mark next to it. That's awesome.

Dean: Okay, Justin, I want you to reach into your left pocket right now. Is the card you're holding the king of hearts?

Justin: Yes it is, it is. That's awesome.

Dean: That is funny. But that, I look at it that you're ... That might be your opportunity to go to the next level. The reason that people are so attracted to Pay-Per-Click when it first came out, I was there when goto.com got started, the very first Pay-Per-Click search engine, that's what started my whole, stop your divorce situation.

Before that, we were doing classified ads in the newspaper, little 2X2 display ads in generating leads and mailing out a sales letter for the book. And then when Goto came along, we could bid on those words and it was such a ... It added some predictability to it. You could say, "I can pay this much." Because then I would just put the sales letter online and send people to that page.

The reason that we like the Pay-Per-Click so much is that we get a guaranteed result. We put in the money and we get clicks. We realize that we have to take it from there. That's what the mechanics of setting up a campaign to get somebody to view the website are going to create. They're going to have wildly different results, depending on the words that you put in the ad and the words that you put on the page that they land on. That's where the creative makes the biggest difference.

That's where, you hear these things like I have always been on the side of ideas, because ideas sometimes get a bad rap. In the business world that everybody's this hustle and grind and doing it stuff that the prevailing thing is that ideas are useless, execution is everything. The reality is, that execution is becoming a commodity.

First of all, the two don't exist independently. You can't execute nothing. You gotta execute something. Let's say that you can flawlessly execute what you're doing. You can flawlessly set up your Facebook Ad account or your Taboola account or whatever it is. You can flawlessly enter in the words and set up all the account with easy to see everything with all the right campaign tracking and everything on it. You can execute all of that flawlessly.

But the only thing that can improve flawless execution is executing a better idea. The ideas are really where the value is. I think that when you can layer on top of this available execution. It's easy for people to learn the mechanics of running a Facebook campaign and running an AdWords campaign, running all those things. There's a lot more people that can do that than can know what to say.

Justin: Yeah, right and what's the idea that we're going to execute-

Dean: What's the idea and that if ... But there's nobody going that next level, which is now connecting the idea with the execution for the outcome. Business owners who are during unit focused, let's be honest, some business owners are marketing centric. It's their favorite thing is to market the business, they don't actually want to do the business.

Justin: Hello. That's me.

Dean: That's part of it. Understand that there's a giant marketplace of business owners who actually do want to do the business that they're in. And that they would love to have a predictable way to push a button and have the outcome of leads and the outcome of nurturing those leads over the next 12, 24, 36 months for lots of business. You know?

Justin: Yeah, okay. We do have a nine day email sequence that our customers really love. So you're saying maybe license that and for a specific, lawyers or dentists or whatever.

Dean: Yeah. When you think about it that the idea of ... Just getting somebody, if a lawyer or any kind of small business could get a list of people who are their ideal prospects over the next 12, 24 months, something that they could continue to nurture. They would be thrilled with that.

Justin: Okay.

Dean: Then it becomes just adding the next level where they don't have to now learn the creative. If you've already, especially, and not every market is suited for this. But there are a lot of markets that are. If you think about any local business, is certainly suitable for syndication.

Justin: We have a pretty good process for getting leads for people who have physical products. I'm thinking that one. My best campaign was in the survival market. We ran a campaign, we're doing 2,000 leads a day within a week. Just go back to that campaign, create all the assets, create a way to be able to deliver that campaign to other people, like that person that we ran it for.

Dean: Yeah, if that's the kind of thing. When you're looking at it, part of the thing is that you can set up a campaign for something that's going to be one off or just as easily as you could set up something that has some opportunity to be used again and again and again. Deploy it on that maximum way. That just seems like you've got, I think that great opportunity. There's nothing like that, that I know of right now, that is a marketplace for scale-ready algorithms.

Justin: If you're in this market, use this campaign, this landing page, this sequence.

Dean: Yeah.

Justin: Interesting.

Dean: Because that's the kind of thing, the beauty of when I show people that getting listings chart. I've got that program, there is thousands of people that use that program all over North America, all over the world really, 'cause we have people in London and Australia and Spain, using the same postcard system, sending people to a landing page. Building a list of people who are likely to sell their house in the next 12, 24, 36, four years, the longer it is, the better.

But we've got an entire system for them to do it. Here's the postcard. Here's the landing page. Here's the initial package that you send them. Here's the book. Here are 12 newsletters to follow up with them. If you think about that, the online version of that could be the generate the lead. Here's the landing page. You're doing all of that for them. You just pick them up where they get the lead and it's packaged then.

Justin: It's almost like, instead of teaching them how to get to that point, it's giving them those assets and then like, "You're going to get these when you buy our course, which is going to show you how to set these assets up."

Dean: It could be. Or it could even be that you can get more money with less hassle. Because showing people the outcome, they'd pay more for the outcome than the recipe.

Justin: Yeah, definitely.

Dean: You know?

Justin: Yeah, okay.

Dean: I imagine creating almost ... I was thinking about this, if I looked on my white board for GoGo clients, which is our platform for landing pages, auto responders, toll free voicemail, texting and a CRM and postcards, all of those tools, that my vision. These are the tools that we have. But to create this, what I've done with the real estate agents is create gogoagent.com, which is all of those tools bundled with all of my solutions that I've already figured out for the real estate world.

Justin: Okay, so if I could create this marketplace, the scale-ready algorithms marketplace, how do I go from they've opted in to selling the scale-ready marketplace?

Dean: You're the best lead generator in the world.

Justin: Well, yeah I can generate the leads. I'm talking about what do I say to them?

Dean: I think if you think about it, it would be an interesting thing of generating the lead for the outcome. For instance, I have a book for the realtors called Getting Listings. It's all just focused on the outcome. That's how we generate the lead is get them to have ... What would be the title of the book that they would definitely want?

Getting listings, there it is. How to get all the listings you want, in any area you want, without making a single cold call or spending thousands on personal promotion. It's like crack for a real estate agent. That's what they really want. Now that somebody's asked for that book, I know that, that's what they want.

Now you focus on giving them the outcome. Maybe you can fall back to the courses. But I think it could be an interesting thing if you've got an opportunity in place to ... It seems bigger than it needs to be initially. It seems like there's way more to it. But when you think about it just one target audience at a time. What one business comes to mind for you that you could do in your sleep that you know how to generate leads for that business?

Justin: I think selling outdoor gear to-

Dean: Perfect. Okay, you look at outdoor gear like that. How many outdoor gear stores are there or local businesses like that, that would love to have a list of people who love to do that kind of thing? Now, gear and products like that, they're moving to be more decentralized in a way. Where you can have, you don't have to do that on a local basis, any physical product you can ship anywhere tomorrow.

Justin: Yeah, I was thinking ecom stores that anybody selling flashlights, tents, boots, survival food, all those ecom. I could create this campaign, basically just duplicate everything I've already done and already figured out to package it together for them.

Dean: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin: How do you come up with what to charge for something like that?

Dean: Well everything's going to be based on the result. If we look at it, when we take the whole pie, if you just draw a circle and take the whole pie, what has to happen from that is some percentage of that sale has to account for the sales and marketing. What would people be cheerfully able to budget for that? That could be at the highest level.

Justin: Right, yeah. They have to pay for the leads. At the end of the day they want to be able to give an ROI of the whole thing. The purchase from me and the-

Dean: That's exactly right. Yes. 'Cause that's anybody-

Justin: And so if they're okay with $3 a lead and we're giving them a system to get a thousand leads. Okay, I see how we're back into the price now.

Dean: Yeah, because you know how to get those leads for less money and more efficiently and faster than they're going to be able to figure out how to get them. If they could push a button, right now with no further time invested, snap their fingers and have the equivalent of a thousand leads for $3, they would love that, right?

Justin: Right.

Dean: If that's an affordable number for them, the thing that they've got to realize is you may be able to get those leads for $2. So you've got that arbitrage in a way, 'cause the reality is, what they're faced with is because that button's not available, they have to push this other button that says, "Learn how to do these Facebook or online ads." And, "Train your staff how to do them." And then they have to train their staff to learn how to do them. And then they still have to fund it and come up with the creative and do all of that stuff. So you're really bundling in the actual cost of what it's going to take them to do it on their own. And it would be a bargain.

Justin: Yeah, for sure, 'cause they're going to save a lot of time and they're going to save money.

Dean: Yeah. And get the result with certainty.

Justin: Okay. Well that gives me some great ideas and alright, just gotta go execute on these ideas, as you said.

Dean: Tell me what you heard then. 'Cause we've got about 10 minutes here, so let's wrap it into a bow here and see where that ... What your thought process is here.

Justin: What I heard is, I'm going from somebody opting in for whatever and then getting them to try and buy a course. What they're really trying to get out of the course is the whatever system I have that's going to get them the results. And so you're saying sell the system instead, 'cause they don't really want to go do the course.

Dean: They want to get results. That's what they really want. You're exactly right. When you think about it, the only reason somebody's going to buy baking pans and baking tools is because they're going to bake something. Whereas, what they really want is cupcakes.

Justin: Right yeah. They want a nice warm brownie.

Dean: That's exactly right. And if that was there ... And in a lot of ways, some people are doing that because it's really entertaining to them, that they really want to, it's exciting to them to learn something new and to be a marketer and it kind of distracts them from the drudgery of actually doing their business. That makes a big difference. When you really think about it, that's one type of thing. But then there's a bigger market of people who really just want a reliable, dependable, affordable source for cupcakes.

Justin: Right, yeah.

Dean: They want delicious cupcakes, just like their mom made that they don't have to go and get all the supplies and learn how to do it, do all that stuff. If there was a easy button for it. We've seen, in every single instance, just in society where that has become an option. It's fully embraced.

When you look at Uber. I wonder what Uber is doing for the car rental business, for destinations and stuff. I can't remember the last time I rented a car anywhere. 'Cause I know that I can go, I can push a button and there's going to be a car at my feet in five minutes, anywhere in the world.

That's really what we're, so we're definitely moving in that direction. Same thing with Airbnb. If I want to go somewhere and I don't want to stay in a hotel, there's just this option of push this button and there it is. I don't have to do all the research.

Justin: Yeah, you're getting exactly what you want without having to go through the whole process.

Dean: I think betting on people's desire to get what they want with as little friction as possible is a play that can't go wrong.

Justin: Alright, well this gives me a lot of stuff to do.

Dean: I'm very excited.

Justin: I gotta go build a scale-ready algorithm marketplace.

Dean: Awesome. I'm very excited. Maybe we can collaborate and we'll load it up into gogo clients.

Justin: That would be cool.

Dean: We can give people the landing pages and all the stuff they need to execute them.

Justin: Yeah, there we go.

Dean: Love it.

Justin: It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Dean. Thank you so much.

Dean: Absolutely. Thanks Justin.

And there we have it. Another great episode. I really enjoyed that conversation. Justin is a genius. I always love talking with people who are super, super able to generate results for people. I could really hear the wheels turning here.

Imagine, if there was a marketplace for results. I don't think you can go wrong going down that path. When you start thinking about all the things that we're embracing in our lives, that are moving in that direction. We mentioned Uber. Just getting to the point where I can push a button and get the result of a car at my feet in five minutes or less, anywhere in the world that's going to deliver me to wherever I want to go. And I just get out. All the logistics of the payment and the organization and all of that stuff is taken care of, we're definitely moving in that direction.

I see it happening every day, even in my life. You look at the Starbucks app. It's such a amazing thing to go to Starbucks and push on my app the things that I want, make the order right there and go and just pick them up. It's like bypassing all of the logistics of everything.

I think that there's really a great opportunity to create. It's something that Peter Diamandis coined the interface moment. Where you've got an opportunity to create a result for somebody that takes a little bit of logistics and may connect to people, it may involve other people creating that result.

If you look at the way Uber works for instance, you've got on one side, people who have a car and the desire to make extra money and the time to take people around. And you've got people who want to get to where they're going and creating an interface called Uber the appropriate, to connect those people is that kind of thinking. Same thing with Airbnb.

That kind of thinking is where we have the opportunity for applying it to all these other things. When you look at what Justin's got. He mentioned on one side he's got agencies and practitioners who want to learn how to be the very best at buying ads and running media campaigns generating leads for people. But then on the other side, you've also got people who just want the result and would just hire somebody to execute those things.

If you can identify the result that you can actually deliver for people, that is an interface. Imagine, in that marketplace, if you start thinking about it, goes back to our profit activators. Profit activator one, select a single target market. Right now, learning media and learning ads is very broad.

But getting leads for a bike repair shop is something that the guy who owns the bike repair shop, really wants, selling bikes and repairing bikes. If you take that, that's a localized business and once you figure out how to do that, if somebody figures out how to run a campaign and get leads for a bike business and can package that up as a scale-ready algorithm. Justin's able to create a marketplace for that where a bike owner can say, "I just want to get some profitable bike clients." That's an amazing outcome.

Think about the opportunities within your business for that kind of thinking. Where can you apply that sort of interface thinking and create scale-ready algorithm for you? And a marketplace for them. Very exciting. I love it stimulates a lot of ideas in those.

That's it for this week. If you want to continue the conversation you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com you can download a copy of the more cheese less whiskers book. If you'd like to be a guest and hatch some evil schemes for your business, just click on the be a guest link and we can connect and talk about your business. That's it for this week. Have a great week. And I will talk to you next time. Bye bye.